It’s a happy and a sad day.

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I’ve known all along that Obama would win. I’m glad I was right!

I’m sad that Prop 8 passed. Everyone should consider it a sad day for America when we start removing people’s rights and start discriminating against people. Saying two people can’t get married is discrimination. Maybe some day we will look back and realize our mistakes that we are making. We’ve made them before, and we know they were wrong. Women not being able to vote. Slavery. It was wrong for the morman church to back Prop 8 — especially considering most of the funding came from outside of California (ie: Utah). We should have a clear separation of state and church, but apparently we don’t. And apparently a civil union between two people (which is what marriage is) is something the church wants to control within the state. Its not fair, and it is a sad day in America.


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Jim McKeeth

I’m going to politely disagree with you on the Prop 8 point. First of all, civilization is all about having laws which define rules. In a democracy those laws are determined by the majority of the citizens.

Right now there is a vocal minority that believes marriage should be extended to homosexuals. I can say it is a minority because a vote showed that the majority wanted Prop 8 to pass.

There are other minorities that want to change the definition of marriage. Some want to allow minors to marry adults, and others want to allow people in the same families to marry. The list goes on. Where do we draw the line? Should there be a line? In this case the majority of the population decided there should be and they voted as much.

Now you blame the Mormon Church and say this vote was being by Utah. The truth is California is the state with the second highest population of Mormons. When the people of Texas (2nd highest population of humans) make a decision you don’t hear them blaming the people of California just because it has a higher population of humans?

It is OK to disagree with a group of people’s beliefs, but to blame them for your troubles is bigotry.


I’m sure lots of people will disagree with me, because prop 8 did pass. Eventually a proposition similar to it will not pass; the previous time this was on the ballot, it passed by a wider margin than it did this time, so popularity for it is dwindling. Democracy is all about the majority, but it should also not be about pushing down the minority, which is what prop 8 is doing. We should treat all people equal, especially when it comes to matters of the state. We are forcing them to become second class citizens.

I probably shouldn’t, but I do blame the mormon church. They have pushed $22 million into the fight for prop 8, and I’m sure no one can doubt that a lot of that money has come from Utah and Salt Lake City. That money helped produce a lot of scare tactic videos which has frightened people into voting YES.


I agree with Corbin, there should be a separation of church and state where church driven thinking should be kept out of state laws. I agree with Jim, the majority should decide the laws for a group. It’s just sad that we as a species aren’t evolved enough to just be accepting of others.

It’s always bothered me that a male murderer/theif and a female crack addict/child beater can get together, get married, and burden the state for all their future needs: But two adult, professional, successful members of society could not if they are of the same gender.


I think a church, or for that matter any group of people organizing to support a campaign is fine. There is still an appropriate separation of church and state in my opinion as long as the prop doesn’t include religion specific text.

That said, I think the yes on 8 campaign messages and strategies were generally targeted to increase fear and ignorance in the general public, instead of trying to making a clear case for a constitutional amendment. The prop had nothing to do with what kids learn in school and everything to do with simply discriminating against a group of people.

Jeffrey Early

I have to disagree with both Jim and Ray, the majority should not decide laws. Tyranny of the majority is alive and well in a proposition like this, but fortunately, it doesn’t happen on the national level. On a national level a simply majority cannot amend the constitution, but requires a two-thirds majority in Congress and then ratification by three-fourths of the states. As an important example of why this is a good thing, many of the key turning points in the civil right movements were decided by 9 people: the supreme court justices.

Re: “where do we draw the line?”. Everyone’s rights and freedoms should be extended until they infringe upon someone else’s rights. That single premise provides a good framework for determining where the line should be drawn — the broad strokes are easy, but the details are fuzzy. You can’t be given the right to murder someone because it pretty clearly infringes on someone else’s right to live. However, same sex marriage does not infringe upon anyone else rights. Minor’s marrying adults? It’s fairly well established that minor’s lack the capacity to make fully informed decisions, so by banning this practice we are protecting the rights of the minor. While 18 years old might not be the ideal cutoff, it’s certainly in the ballpark. And so on…

Anyway, my 2 cents…


Jeffrey you misunderstand, or put more accurately, I didn’t explain it well. The majority should be able to decide the laws for a group, but what’s really required is an enlightened majority, a majority of people who think about the whole, and not about their own needs or wants. Sadly society is nowhere near where it needs to be, the best it seems we can hope for is an enlightned minority, and a lot of luck. I think Keith Oberman summed it up best the other night


Looks like I did the link thingy wrong

Jeffrey Early

Ah, gotcha Ray — I completely agree with you there.

Very nice clip, I’m glad somebody is speaking out so passionately in such a public position. That’s great.

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